// Weapon System: Ideas for addons and more

Here I ask your opinion and feedback on specific aspect of the game, or feature I am working on.
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S-2K
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Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 am

While watching videos on this game, I've seen several large turrets that use four rapid-fire plasma guns instead of one large cannon, then an idea started to form in my head.
So, here's my idea for customizable cannons.
Blocks:
Cannon Breech - The cornerstone of all cannons. They are 1x1 blocks that merge when placed next to other breech blocks. The size of the breech determines what size of shell the cannon is going to use.

Cannon Barrel - Without at least one of these placed on the breech, the breech would be useless. They are 1x1 blocks, like the breech, but when placed on a breech wider than one block, the barrel changes size to fit it. More barrels allow for the projectile to reach faster speeds, at the cost of greater weight on the turret and ship.

Cannon Magazine - Another 1x1 block. When placed on a breech, they allow the cannon to hold more shells before needing to reload at the cost of increasing reload time. They need to be scaled up to the breech if it is greater than 1x1, for example, if the breech is 2x4, the magazine must be a 2x4 to hold one shell.

Autoloader - These 1x1 parts demand energy to function, however they decrease the reload time for cannons, making them useful for fighter-scale cannons and letting larger capital ship cannons fire more often.

High Explosive Shell Piece - These can be placed on any part of the cannon except on the barrel. They increase the splash radius of the shell.

Piercer Shell Piece - Similar to the HE Shell Piece, however they increase the kinetic damage of the shell itself and allow it to pierce through multiple blocks if the shell does more damage than the blocks have health.

Electromagnetic Shell Piece - Similar to other Shell Pieces. They allow the shell to do more damage to shields and drain power from ships hit with the shell, but they demand energy like the Autoloaders.




*Postnote, at the time of typing this, other similar ideas have not been suggested yet. I suggest you take a look at those instead of this if you see this one, Dev.

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Name11ess
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Wed May 02, 2018 9:25 am

Sullos wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:38 am
I am quite fond of 3 suggestions. Tomatarts as a base, propeach made good suggestions too.
Only I would change Tomatarts EMP to also use ZachZents EMP idea. Breaking logic sounds awesome ;D


I believe it should stay simple though. A lot of these ideas are way too complex for what should be a customisable system in Skyw. Keep it simple is my best suggestion.
I have the exact same opinion.

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Sheppowed
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Wed May 02, 2018 1:59 pm

Hi, I would like in advance to clarify that I do not have the game but that I am closely following its development. and also I am French

I have two ideas to offer content in Skywanderers,
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gun overload
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its function would be to give more power to the weapons and thus of damage of attack, and a better precision of shooting.

but this system needs to cool down and cannot be used on small weapons, but especially on laser style weapons (if there are any ^^)
and if one day there is a money or craft system, it would be very complicated to get one.

its advantage would be its simplicity of use, it can be deactivated or activated at any time, the more there is overloading of weapon, the more there is efficiency. but you can't go over a certain limit or it's abuse.

THE SETTING UP
the weapon overload would need to be connected to a power source (whatever) provided it provides a sufficient amount of power. then it would have to be connected to a logical gate to use it. as soon as this block is activated, all weapons concerned will be "boosted".

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concentrated energy laser (CEL)
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This weapon would be capable of causing enormous damage, and can be placed on rotors to shoot in all directions,

on the other hand, this weapon requires a lot of power and is very imposing. and needs to cool for 2 minutes, and it takes 7 seconds after the weapon is activated for it to send the laser

its ultimate advantage would be its simplicity to obtain and its cost of manufacture, it would also have a great distance of shooting but not very precise.

it sets up like all the other weapons

I hope I brought some cool stuff. nice day

:D
Image

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Amazigh
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Wed May 02, 2018 7:31 pm

On the subject of missiles, I've seen people suggesting player-built missiles, this is a neat idea. My thoughts on it:

There could be two types of missile, "Standard Missiles" and "Torpedoes"

"Standard Missiles" Are basically what we currently have, no customisation of the missile itself, but they would be a simple missile that would come in brick-scale, and have a maneuverability advantage over torpedoes.
These would be what you use when you want to have missiles on a small ship (say a fighter) or fire lots of missiles from a larger ship.

"Torpedoes" Are designed by the player in a similar manner to hand-held weapons, (this would determine range, damage, maneuverability, etc.) and the design will be allocated to a torpedo launcher block, they would use a different ammo to "Standard Missiles" where depending on the size of the torpedo more ammo would be used, eg: a tiny torpedo might only use 2 or 3 ammo, but a huge one might take 20 or more.
As a balance consideration the size of the torpedo would influence the reload time of the launcher, so a small torpedo could be fired rapidly, but large ones would have a slow fire rate.
Torpedoes would be for large single shot missile weapons, say anti-capital missiles carried by a bomber, or heavy ship-to-ship missiles.

VIPMTHE2ND
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Wed May 02, 2018 10:35 pm

Concerning the current weapons table and building custom missiles with such a table, I have some concerns:

*Mass production, both of custom handheld weapons and custom missiles. Would there be a 'Weapon' or 'Missile' assembler to mass produce custom handheld weapons and missiles? Will mass produced missiles be created pro bono, or will there be a resource cost? Would such a resource cost be of one type of resource, or as many resources as the original weapon required? And so on.

*Custom man-portable missile launchers. Would custom missiles be stored in inventory, and how would they be managed?

*Lag management. Suppose someone creates a bunch of micromissiles and fires them MMM style in multiplayer?

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tsunamayo
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Wed May 02, 2018 11:27 pm

Thanks you all for your contributions! This is all very interesting.
Just a few remarks:
  • Adding more block of the same base type will increase weapon power and energy requirement. No need for an "overload" or "power" addon block.
  • Gimbal will start in the 5-10 range I guess (to be tweaked), but each addon or stacking will decrease the range and the speed at which it moves.
  • Not a fan of multi-components gun, one block should be enough to have a functional weapon. Only exception is for ammunition, where I think it is ok to ask the player to link/pipe a crate to the gun.
  • I havent played ftd ;-), but if one of you wants to make me a quick explanation that would be cool
  • Each weapon and addon should have different energy/heat requirement, and also have a shield/armor or else damage profile, that way the weapon design would impact the ship design, but also the way combat are managed.
Ideally on top of Laser/Beam I should add custom-made missiles and kinetic weapon with custom-made shell. Plus maybe a couple of funny weapon that could come much later on (flame-plasma thrower, ect).

VIPMTHE2ND
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Thu May 03, 2018 1:32 am

tsunamayo wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:27 pm
Thanks you all for your contributions! This is all very interesting.
Just a few remarks:
  • Adding more block of the same base type will increase weapon power and energy requirement. No need for an "overload" or "power" addon block.
  • Gimbal will start in the 5-10 range I guess (to be tweaked), but each addon or stacking will decrease the range and the speed at which it moves.
  • Not a fan of multi-components gun, one block should be enough to have a functional weapon. Only exception is for ammunition, where I think it is ok to ask the player to link/pipe a crate to the gun.
  • I havent played ftd ;-), but if one of you wants to make me a quick explanation that would be cool
  • Each weapon and addon should have different energy/heat requirement, and also have a shield/armor or else damage profile, that way the weapon design would impact the ship design, but also the way combat are managed.
Ideally on top of Laser/Beam I should add custom-made missiles and kinetic weapon with custom-made shell. Plus maybe a couple of funny weapon that could come much later on (flame-plasma thrower, ect).
Power Conduits would be used to create compact, powerful but inefficient and heat damage prone weapons, reactors and shields. Could be an interesting mechanic--you could either go for a bigger, bulkier, but safer and more reliable powerplant, or you could design an overcharged, overpowered little beast that feels like it could explode at any moment.

It's an 'interesting tradeoffs' thing to offset the worries of Starmade-style gigantism--it lets smaller craft go toe-to-toe with bigger ones and come out the winner, while emphasizing the smaller craft's fragility, it's lack of endurance, and the skill required to pilot it.


Multi-component guns...hmm. I would suggesting having the Breach block (if you end up going with something like my idea) be able to act as a Gun by itself-just not a very good one. More good for minelaying or missile launching than actually shooting.


FtD? Basically the penultimate example of how(and how not) to do voxel-based wargames. On the one hand: Lots of complexity. On the other: Lots of complexity.
That's not a helpful explanation per say, but it is a quick one.


Another addon idea:
Ion Spectrometer: On weapons, improves shield damage at the expense of armor damage. On shields, improves resistance to energy weapons at the expense of resistance to kinetic weapons. On reactors, increases fuel efficiency at the expense of power output and fuel consumption.
(Based on this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry)

Goo
Newbie
Posts: 3

Thu May 03, 2018 2:16 am

About FTD
Its a build game where you waste (but fun kinda waste) a lot of time designing and assembling various systems on your vessel. It is not symply a ship, space ship, hover,plane,tank huge humanoid robot etc.. Your vessel is your vessel. You can build ancient ship powered by wind and then construct further more to riddiculous levels. This game provides you with huge set of blocks and lets you go.
based on a revues in Steam platform i can say that this game is too complex for normal players, many people abandon it just in 1 day because they do not understand.

I want Skywanderers to be at similiar or even more complex levels of designing weapons. But my playtime in FTD tells me i spend too much time on creating and testing my creations than on actuall gameplay on my creations. I dont want that happend with Skywanderers.

Here i did some screenshots of weapon system this game uses. Named some important blocks and aded not all of them. Keep in mind more than a half stuff here is not showed and this screenshots only made to show an example how things connected in similiar game.

Very weak pulse laser setup. Its weapon (muzle with barrels) connected to base laser system and did not have engine to power it source (engine powering this must be at least 2 times bigger)
Image

Advanced canon. Its connected in a row in maximum possible way. there is 1 source draining power from ship from powder container thru round configurator right in clips. Canon only prowide a way to deliver rounds and improve it basic stats configured in round configurator. Powder regenerates in each powder container but very slow, and you can fabricate powder using engine power and materials. (convinient when you cant prowide safely stored powder containers)
Image

Of course i must show proper setup of a weapon. Weapons can be brick placed in ship in any dirrection and in that case they have gimbal. Longer and heavier barrel - slower aiming and shorter arc. But main way to put weapons on a ship is turrets. In one of last updates we can put turrets on turrets on pistons and so on (Skywanderers did it first!). This setup placed in lower deck and goes thru all the top roof of a vessel and all vulnerable guts of a weapon system espechially clips filled with explosive rounds are hidden inside ship armour. Turret spins all weapon system blocks including muzzle and a garrel in horizontal plane at 360* but muzle itself connected to barrel with spechial mantlet to change its original 5x5* gimbal to 3x90* verticall one. Ignore reflective shields and sparcling blue energy on barrel - its is railgun magnets beeing charged.
Image
Main block of cannon has to be phisically connected with its weapon system in FTD. But main block of lasers - is not. You may place whole laser weapon system inside your hull. But.. laser weapon system must be connected in a row (like real lasers) and longer it is - better. You can connect one laser system thru mirrors with many laser muzzle blocks but to gain acurracy you need them to have reeeeeeeally long optic barrels. You can consturct flying in space death star but acurracy of that star will be limited by its diameter. This is absolutelly unacceptable in Skywanderers i think. But in FTD its shure thing fine.

FTD do have simple wapons consisting of a single block. They are well balanced with system weapons. And have tier 2 canon system. Its very simplyfied Adwanced Canons (it is tier 3) system, but its clunky and have nothing (beside gimbal behaviour) spechial or usefull to tell. So i wont show it here.

For me weapon creation system in Skywanderes must be simplyer than this. But it must give variety. Not just canon and lasers that you can add damage. But a system of few blocks sitting inside a ship that imbroves and changes behaviour of fariety different weapon blocks. It will unifie lasers and canons in convinient and understandable way. If you want more damage - increase number of source drainiage blocks, more accuracy distance and speed - increase number of weapon blocks. And actual weapon mounted on turret or not - will corresponds changing it behavior, huge damage levels in that weapon system - heavier and slower weapon. Adding barrels to actual weapon is unconvinient. See that turret i showed recently - barrels of its single weapon is enormously long. Its barrels actually needs to be longer to gain accuracy i want but i designed them with usage of railgun that drain energy from capacitors to stabilise rounds to gain that accuracy. Its complicated to get a nice and convinient outside look. My ship is shining in the night because of that railguns. When my ship aiming at left or right broadside to aimm all 4 such turrets at single enmy - its rolling to that side due to long and heavy barrels. I had to use that long barrel but i dont want that long barrel.. it shure will be a problen on small space ship battles in Skywanderers. Little plane with 4 long barrel lasers by the tips of the wings. Huge capital ship with small turrets that hide on a surface but have the same 4 long barrel lasers.. let people be creative with that barrel designes. I saw a lot of good pics of already made fighter planes with custom made cool weapons.
Dont force them to use a small set of barrels.

Drillz007
Newbie
Posts: 4

Thu May 03, 2018 3:09 am

Its easy to say that most players would want battles to look like something out of "sins of a solar empire" or "supreme commander FA" (not a space game but epic battles) but as wonderful as it would be to have generic broad side battles some players might want to play the role of hunter or sniper picking off ships with high damage weapons at extreme ranges or possibly laying mine fields near a popular mining spot to pick off unwelcome competition i strongly feel that the weapons need real depth to them with pros cons and counters so no one weapons is superior to all the others i would also hope for different damage types and ammunition (Not an easy question to answer quickly)

However if we are just talking add on types for barrels then i highly suggest the following 6

Accuracy - Reduces the cone of fire increases power drain
Damage - Increases damage/cost to fire/reload rate
Reload - Reduces reload rate
Velocity - Increases speed of projectile at the cost of resources and power
Range - Increases the max distance
Separator (needs better name) - Increases projectile count but reduces accuracy and damage slightly

These are generic types covering basic needs of the player at least for the "barrel types"

As for modifications (gimmicks) i think that should largely rely on how big the weapon system is for example a 3 block gun might have 1 while a 10 block gun might get 2 this would have to quickly drop off in scale so large guns would not be completely superior to there counter parts but for modifications the ones

Examples

Ricochet - Bounces off things and deals reduced damage every bounce
Shield mitigation - Reduces damage but passes through shields without being blocked
Power drain - Removes power from batteries or reduces generator output for a short time
Tracking - Makes Slight adjustments mid flight to give a better chance at hitting enemy
Explosive - More Boom

Though when i hear that small weapons will get a built in gimbled i feel like that is redundant as we have the joint block for that purpose for the most part i imagine that everyone would just toss a larger weapon on a joint as well then they cancel out the special ability of the small weapon granted for a slower movement speed but still it would effectively have the same purpose

(i hope any of this makes sense i rushed it before i sleep)

I wrote a post earlier about this type of stuff in great detail i will leave a link for those interested
(viewtopic.php?f=5&t=293)

Goo
Newbie
Posts: 3

Thu May 03, 2018 12:18 pm

custom-made missiles and kinetic weapon with custom-made shell
Tsunamayo, it exactly how it is in FTD. It do have good adwantage on other weapon systems. but it have huge flaws too!
Ill show how this mechanic work for FTD.
Image
Explayning how parts works on text of pic is gonna take so long.. Well better to watch short tutorial here its shortest and understandable way i could find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wjbhrpDwnw
For "+" ill mention that it is indeed a good and wide covering system to design your own weapons.
But for "-" im going to show you how this system may be abused and where it have its stoping limits.

Huge flaws there (people even did mods to solve this) is limited borders by a numerical caps.
For example basic system for rockets unsuitable for huge damage big missiles. They are not big.. they are loooooong. Same for canon shels. But for canons you have option of calibre, tho its limited too.
I made ridiculus round for ridicculus canon. Just look at its shell, it says i need 154m long barrel to optimal (not even accurate) accuracy.
Image
And here how stacked shell looks in configurator. Canon at left side. Notice it have different turret servos. Big horizontal servo capable of turning heavier turrets with greater speeds (a good thing to do)
Image

And for long rockets it even worse.. You cant build bigger (You need to install huge salvo of small rockets to deal bigger damage)
Image

But long rockets not only looks bad.. due to drag they fly bad.
Image

So people made mod with +3 different size of rockets. You can trade damage and range of standard missile to gain agility and speed with 4 smaller missiles in the same size gantry. (used in missile interceptors.) And trade load time, cost of ammo and space to huge 4 times bigger slow ballistic missiles for long distance huge badaboom!

Someone suggested configurable missiles based on how logic blocks are implemented. I think its good idea to have something like this.
Underwing rockets made segment by segment held on a stackable and sizble rocket pads.
Image
Sorry for poor quality. I don't have the game and used pic from internet.

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