// New Tool: Delete, Paint, Link

Here I ask your opinion and feedback on specific aspect of the game, or feature I am working on.
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Breezebuilder
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:46 pm

Gadget wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:09 pm
The ability to reset/remove links would also be very useful, as it's easy to make mistakes!
This is actually in the game; shift+right click on the gate input or output, then press the ↻ symbol to clear links.

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Gadget
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:48 pm

Ah! Good to know, ta.

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tsunamayo
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:15 pm

Ben wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:25 pm
I think the link tool in particular will make things a lot easier and be a very welcome change!

As for the paint tool, I like it better than the current system, but I think it could he improved more. What I think would be best is a single paint tool, RMB opening up a menu, where you can pick your colour, choose from a preset, or add a new preset. Would be even cooler if presets could be shared, so if people are working together in a faction or something, the colour preset could really quickly be shared with other people

(as a related suggestion to that last point, perhaps toolbar block selections could be saved in this preset too? So a selection or blocks could be saved or loaded as presets too)
Yes I will see what I can do for color faction when I get to factions ;) . Also yes I think that being able to customize color from RMB could be great.

Regarding the preset: I wanted to have bags/crate. Like you put all your inventory in a crate, and can pick it back later. Also for survival I wanted to have EVA suit with extra slot. So you could have a room with crate/suit made for various purpose, fighting, exploring, mining, building.

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tsunamayo
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:20 pm

Noxy wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:42 pm
I am completely onboard with regards to the paint and wire tool.

The delete tool I'm not sure about. When looking at other survival buildy games they tend to have something like this (Angle grinder, pickaxe, matter manipulator, quantum destabilizer, etc). I would not call it a "delete tool".

I think a toolless method should be in a separate mode like Starmade's build mode but for survival a delete tool seems to just fit.
Yes my problem is that the current system is very creative oriented, but survival is my goal. I dont want people to mine block with left click and no tool equiped...
Also I am religiously against "Build Mode", "Fly Mode" ect. You are in the world, you interact with the environment, you use items, period.

Rizzo
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:00 am

I'm not so sure about all these extra tools for simple features. It really just depends on how many total tools you are looking to implement. For example: if you plan to add mining tools, hand weapons, etc... the tool inventory becomes quickly unfriendly and putting in tool for each function starts to become cumbersome to use. This was an issue I found if you compare other voxel games in the genre:

In Space Engineers you could simply color ships by assigning a paint and using the middle mouse button to paint the ship. In Empyrion, there was a tool. The latter had a lot of tools, and this made that at least half if not all of your hot bar was taken up with tools. The Space Engineers was simpler. That said, it became difficult to paint blocks after the fact because sometime getting an angle on the correct block was hard to do. So I feel that leaving out the tool and allowing us to color the ships without having to earn a tool is a better approach. As far as setting the default, neither could do this but I wished they could. I use this feature all the time here and it saves a lot of time while building.

Deleting blocks is an important mechanic. If there is going to be resources, I would imagine that a tool would be good here because you are effectively reclaiming materials. However, in actual practice it can become a very slow way to fix mistakes when building in creative. It is sometimes necessary to instant delete and this has sped things up here. So, if it is a tool, it would be good if it can be set to instant delete or normal delete.

I think that there are too many specialized blocks, but at the same time... some animations require you to use delays in a different path. I actually like the logic system now, though I wish more blocks could be connected to solve some issues with certain logic. If anything, I would add a master computer block that allows you to toggle on and off the gate system so you can view the connections while you work on the ship through an in game mechanic.

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tsunamayo
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:20 am

First thanks you all for your feedback! This exactly what I need, it is very precious to me.
So a few remark based from what I saw:

Fast delete: As expected the most contentious point. But look at it this way: I almost never use LMB to delete, I always do SHIFT-LMB. If I give a Delete tool override key, I could give it two mode: Toggle or Hold. If you set it hold SHIFT you pretty much get the same behaviour as today. You just cant delete with LMB only, SHIFT-LMB is the way to go. With toggle you press your key once, and you get to the delete tool. Press once more and you get back to your previous item. SHIFT-LMB gives you insta-delete (single click instead of n-), and line-plane-box delete. Both feature being creative by nature.

Inventory Cluttering: The culprit is more shape for now, tool will have a limited impact, it would even be better for paint, and believe me paint can take a serious portion of your bar as of now. Link is a single tool, and delete I expect most people would use the quick key to get to the Delete tool (or the delete tool assigned for survival). For shape I will give a way to put a shape family in the inventory, and then some tbd way to toggle between them.

Creative vs survival: My problem with the current system is that it is very creative focused. My long term goal is to get rid of creative (will do a post on that), and have the same creative feature attainable by progressing in survival. Think Shipyard with creative ability, building bot, or "building suit" with jet pack, boost and so on.

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schlid
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:57 am

The link tool sounds like a great addition, however instead of a paint tool would a paint toolbar be more appropriate, so say you press alt and it swaps to a paint toolbar, to prevent it clogging up your block toolbar whilst also keeping the current system which imo is great.
fantastique

Mellcor
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:39 am

i honestly dont like the idea on a delete tool (i do like the paint one), the reason being it just means that you will have to switch to something else in your hot bar to remove a block then switch back to the block you were using beforhand, maby in survival but i dont think in creative it is a good idea as it will only slow down building

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tsunamayo
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:00 am

Mellcor wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:39 am
i honestly dont like the idea on a delete tool (i do like the paint one), the reason being it just means that you will have to switch to something else in your hot bar to remove a block then switch back to the block you were using beforhand, maby in survival but i dont think in creative it is a good idea as it will only slow down building
Do you use LMB or SHIFT-LMB to delete faster?

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Pin-Lui
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Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:02 am

Tool for the Logic yes, but im no a fan of paint and delet tool.
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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