// New Tool: Delete, Paint, Link

Here I ask your opinion and feedback on specific aspect of the game, or feature I am working on.
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:11 pm

Okay so I am now seriously considering making some change to the way we interact within the game. As the game is fresh for a lot of people now I think I have a window of opportunity to do that now, cause any change, even better, is usually seen as a regression by people already used to a way of doing things (A new website layout is always painful at first - right?)

In survival these tool will always be in the inventory, but you are free to place them in the inventory bar or not.
I will provide bindable quick access key to equip them fast for advanced player, but they will not be necessary to play (you can simply drag the tool in our item bar, and select it - like a pickaxe in Minecraft)

There will be three tools for doing specific things:

Paint tool
Instead of having paint color as normal item, you will have a paint tool. As nobody use right click to assign a default color (me included), RMB would be assigned to open an color wheel. So changing color would be much much faster.
Also, it would be possible to have several paint tool in the item bar, it would always be the same physical tool but with a different paint, in order to switch between them fast when painting a ship livery for example.
This one is not that much of a big change really.

Link Tool
A few people complained about the way we interact with logical component. I agree the current scheme is not really satisfying. Having a dedicated Link tool would allow:
  • To always see assignment links when tool is equiped.
  • To link several time a button or a gate output! That means that we would get rid of dual link and quad link command, which would be a massive speedup imo, and will also save some room.
  • No need for callback command! Indeed you could simply Link your rotator or system to a button or a gate. The link would be refactored to show the direction of the signal.
  • LMB will be to assign, RMB to reset (or the other way around, dont matter)
Delete Tool
Instead of destroying stuff with LMB (by default), you would need to equip a Delete tool. To compensate for that a delete action would be added to the quick action wheel, for when you just want to delete a block.
This tool could allow a smoother delete experience, like having the bulk delete while simply holding RMB (no crappy SHIFT or CTRL key to be hold). It could also be harder to delete stuff by mistake.
I guess this is the change that could piss off experienced player the most, as you loose the ability to isnta-delete, but as I will provide quick access key this could be somewhat compensated.

Looking forward to hear your though on that, new players and the old guard.

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Location: Adelaide, Australia

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:25 pm

I think the link tool in particular will make things a lot easier and be a very welcome change!

As for the paint tool, I like it better than the current system, but I think it could he improved more. What I think would be best is a single paint tool, RMB opening up a menu, where you can pick your colour, choose from a preset, or add a new preset. Would be even cooler if presets could be shared, so if people are working together in a faction or something, the colour preset could really quickly be shared with other people

(as a related suggestion to that last point, perhaps toolbar block selections could be saved in this preset too? So a selection or blocks could be saved or loaded as presets too)
P E T C H A - K O H U R

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Location: England: Land of Tea and Biscuits

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:38 pm

*raises hand*

I assign default colours. The default blue-grey is not nice to me. Whereas changing it to a straight darker grey means I dont need to recolour large amounts of my ships as Grey is their default main colour, and the other colours are applied on top of that.

a Delete tool sounds good on paper, but when it replaces the existing single-block click-to-remove and puts it into a radial menu i feel it could be... tedious... I guess its so early why not try it.
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:57 pm

I absolutely love how links and logic works right now- I feel a link tool that makes the dual and quad link obsolete and lets you just connect multiple things from one link would ruin this a bit.
How about a tool that allows you to see links and possible links? You could click the possible link, instantly connecting the two pieces. The tool could also allow you to see rotors, buttons, joysticks, hinges etc through walls, to make selecting this link easier.

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Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:09 pm

I think the paint and link tools would be very convenient, and would really streamline the building process. However, I prefer the current method of deleting blocks. Adding a tool for it, I think, would slow things down.
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Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:11 pm

A Link tool so we can "Rewire" stuff without replacing the blocks would be awesome! (Like Wiremod in Garrysmod!)

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Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:33 pm

Sofa wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:09 pm
I think the paint and link tools would be very convenient, and would really streamline the building process. However, I prefer the current method of deleting blocks. Adding a tool for it, I think, would slow things down.
I share the same sentiment
99% Certain to spend all time building furniture for vessels too small to accommodate it.

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Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:42 pm

I am completely onboard with regards to the paint and wire tool.

The delete tool I'm not sure about. When looking at other survival buildy games they tend to have something like this (Angle grinder, pickaxe, matter manipulator, quantum destabilizer, etc). I would not call it a "delete tool".

I think a toolless method should be in a separate mode like Starmade's build mode but for survival a delete tool seems to just fit.

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Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:31 pm

To preface: I think it's important to impress upon the players that Survival and Creative modes are different, so their ease of environmental interaction and creation are also going to differ. In creative you may have god-like, fluid ability to build, paint and delete vast things, but that wont be the case for Survival. I think if you make this distinction clear advanced players wont be as annoyed, as they wont expect them to be 'the same game'. I think that assumption already carries over from Minecraft, however.

That said, I myself am fine with the idea tool items being the gatekeeper method for construction. As you said, Minecraft does it, Starbound does it, Terraria does it,so the game-play principles are directly transferable. You need a tool to complete an action.

So to approach the obvious concern: what does a player do if they want to delete something and they don't have the tool? Is that the point, to make it so the player can't always just delete their way in and out of things? The ability to just destroy whatever you want is a big issue when scripting quests in Starbound, as people can 'cheat' their way to the end of a quest by digging. So is this being considered for the tool?

Otherwise, it sounds fine as long as the tool can be brought up very fast. Players consider deleting blocks synonymous with building, so they'd be flipping to that tool repeatedly and endlessly. Is there a concern for fatigue there?

One final consideration: games like Minecraft, Starbound, etc. have a universal problem: hotbar fatigue. The more items in a game, the more inventory swapping a player has to do, which becomes a drag mid-to-late game. Especially in Survival when you also have a limited inventory, so you're also running between chests.

With tools like this, it often adds yet another ball to juggle, and another hotbar slot to fill. So a dedicated 'tools' hotbar might help a lot with this. Especially since, unlike Minecraft, Skywanderers also has size-of-blocks and shape-of-blocks, so the hotbar already fills up 3x faster than if we were just dealing with cubes.

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Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:09 pm

I'd definitely like the ability to link one output to many inputs. I've already found that if you're doing anything even mildly complex with logic gates, you end up needing a lot of dual and quad link blocks.

The ability to reset/remove links would also be very useful, as it's easy to make mistakes!

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